Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N.

J.B. Member	Mon Aug 30 06:25:50 http://new...p_on_re_us/us_brewer_un_report PHOENIX â?? Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer demanded Friday that a reference to the State's immigration law be removed from a State Department report to the United Nations' human rights commissioner. The U.S. included its legal challenge to the law on a list of ways the federal government is protecting human rights. In a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Brewer says it is "downright offensive" that a state law would be included in the report, which was drafted as part of a UN review of human rights in all member nations every four years. "The idea of our own American government submitting the duly enacted laws of a state of the United States to 'review' by the United Nations is internationalism run amok and unconstitutional," Brewer wrote.
J.B. Member	Mon Aug 30 06:26:13 What the FUCK is wrong with this Administration???
Neverwoods Member	Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done.
Neverwoods Member	Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined."
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying...
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying...
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed.
Seb Member	Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink.
Aeros Member	Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant?
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN.
Aeros Member	Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not?
Aeros Member	Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not?
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us.
Goreth Member	Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong.
saiko Member	Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done?
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?
J.B. Member	Mon Aug 30 10:09:19 Obama is a fucking traitor to this country. Whining to the UN about Arizona trying to protect its border with Mexico. People being raped and murdered there every fucking day. People being kidnapped at record numbers. Mexicans taking over entire State and Federal parks, and the government response is to put up warning signs (I swear I am not making that up). Arizona law does not violate international law.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 10:12:39 JB is a tranny fucker.
Goreth Member	Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 30 10:27:44 JB fucks trannies.
saiko Member	Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report.
Alexis Member	Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then.
Forwyn Member	Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law.
Forwyn Member	Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back.
saiko Member	Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens?
Forwyn Member	Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws.
Seb Member	Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it.
Seb Member	Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members.
Forwyn Member	Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals?
saiko Member	Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates?
Seb Member	Tue Aug 31 16:14:15 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." Missed that gem... No, under customary international law, that is not the case.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts
Forwyn Member	Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ?
Aeros Member	Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states.
Aeros Member	Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years?
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:10 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. 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J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:14 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:16 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:19 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:22 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:24 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:27 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:19:30 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
Seb Member	Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:21 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:24 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:26 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:29 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:32 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:34 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:37 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:40 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:50 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.
J.B. Member	Tue Aug 31 21:25:53 Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator.Down with Sharia UP I refuse to be silenced by a rogue moderator. 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Seb Member	Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten.
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:13 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:19 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:23 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:26 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:29 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:33 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Aug 31 23:04:36 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Tue Aug 31 23:03:45 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Politics / US State Dept Reports Arizona To U.N. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:24:06 ^troll. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:37:43 How is he a troll? The statement is included in The State Dept. report to the UN. But at least Obama is moving to close the border. 30 people arrive in Arizona today to get the job done. Neverwoods Member Mon Aug 30 07:41:11 ^troll nr 2. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 07:42:59 Clearly this was selective quoting to paint this administration in a negative light. Misleading. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 07:59:40 In its report, the State Department does not specifically allege that Arizona's law would lead to racial profiling. "A recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world," the report says. "The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoined." Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:08:38 Selective quote obviously. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:14:48 Sure it is a selective quote. The quote is the subject of the Associated Press story and this thread. Should they have quoted about the price of tea in China. Damn man, maybe there is something wrong with the water where you live. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:16:52 It's misleading. Just saying... Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:18:39 The quote itself is mislead and had no business being in the report to The UN. It is an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:20:32 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:23:33 We are in agreement. The State Dept. made a misleading statement where it had no business doing so. I'm glad you agree with me for once. Milton Bradley Member Mon Aug 30 08:24:54 "I'm not going to spend the entire day again trying to explain to you a simple statement that is clearly self evident." -HR Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 08:29:02 You don't have to explain anything. We are agreed. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 08:36:33 Hot Rod: Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? Is that also not an internal issue that does not concern the rest of the world? Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. America is currently being sued at the inter american court over failure to do this, which consitutes (under american law) a violation of due process by Mexico (however, similar actions are ongoing by Canada and Australia in other courts). Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access? So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained, is an international issue, particularly in light of Americas habitual refusal of consular access through failure to inform the consulate of the national in question is being detained. America, like every nation, has it's faults. The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:35 Why does Rod and J.B. care? Aren't they the ones who argue so strongly the UN is irrelevant? CrownRoyal Member Mon Aug 30 09:01:58 "The problem is you think your shit doesn't stink. " Only when republicans are in power, technically. I mean, according to Rod. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:15:15 Seb - Then why do you compile a report on human rights abuses in Iran? I didn't. But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions. In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights. Seb - Also, it is not true: it's an issue that effects Mexican nationals, be they in the states illegally or not. America flagrantly abuses foreign nationals, it's a major issue. The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter. Seb - For example, it is a customary aspect of international law that the consular representatives of a foreign nationals arrested in a country be informed in the shortest possible time in order that consular access be provided. That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law. Seb - So, yes, actions like this where foreign nationals are likely to be detained... Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future? Seb - America, like every nation, has it's faults. I quite agree, but this issue is not one of them yet. What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional? I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN. Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:22:50 Well, it is a matter that would be of interest to a whole lot of countries, since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:32:50 ERR... What Arizona Law? Do you mean the one that *IS NOT BEING ENFORCED* as it works it's way through the courts to determine if it is indeed legal or not? Aeros Member Mon Aug 30 09:33:52 Again, why do you care so much what the State Department chooses to discuss with the UN or not? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 09:42:00 That has been the trouble with our country, people like you thaty don't care when our politicians make a fool of themselves which reflects on us. Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 09:55:38 Pretending that your problems aren't problems really and throwing a temper tantrum if someone dares to say they are is a really counterproductive way to cultivate the image of your nation. Even if they happen to be wrong. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 09:57:19 "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:00:02 Come on Goreth, you are smarter than that. This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced. It is not a problem, it is an internal issue until such time as it goes into effect and is then abused. Hot Rod Member Mon Aug 30 10:03:12 saiko - By what logic do you want to wait until after harm is done with investigating whether harm will be done? That logic is for The Courts, *NOT* The United Nations. Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country? Goreth Member Mon Aug 30 10:16:16 "This issue is working it's way through the courts, it is not being enforced." Irellevant. It's a law and even if it were just a proposed law you could sell campaigning against it as defending human rights or discuss it with the UN as much as you like. "It is not a problem, it is an internal issue" Difference being? Or to put it a different way, I don't think 'internal issue' equals 'no foreigners business'. Mind you I don't really like the UN, this is a matter of principle. I think it's a good thing that foreigners can poke their nose into the shit of your nation (or mine, or anyones). And that includes potential shit. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 11:55:58 "Would you care to give us a list of the issues whose legality is in the process of being decided by your country?" No, because it's as long as my arm, but I'm sure they're in the UN report. Alexis Member Mon Aug 30 13:40:18 I have something as long as your arm saiko. care to feel it? wait are you a highschool girl or muslim infant? nevermind then. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:28:20 "Could you imagine the outcry America would make if American citizens arrested in other countries were denied consular access?" America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:30:40 "since its their citizens who are conceivably being targeted by the Arizona law." Right, those "citizens" who leave the country and have no intention of coming back. saiko Member Mon Aug 30 16:35:57 Why do you put quotation marks around citizens? Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 16:41:20 There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways. Its convenient to continue labeling them citizens for political purposes(of course its good for Mexico for us to have a boatload of illegals who send cash back to their families), but in the end they won't hear from them until they come crying to the embassy because they got caught breaking laws. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:49:07 Hot Rod: "But The State Dept. does because of the stoning of their citizens for minor infractions." Right, and do you have a problem with compiling report on what is an internal matter? "In this case it was our own government reporting something that has yet to violate anyones rights." Actually, it potentially does. Rights under customary international law to non-discrimination. The fact that you individually may not consider them rights, or even the US not considering this to be in breach of non-discrimination (though actually it does, though clearly Arizona does not), doesn't change it from the point of view of customary international law, just as Irans insistence that stoning someone to death does not violate any right that they recognise doesn't alter the issue. "The Arizona State Law has not affected a single Mexican National nor any foreign national for that matter." It is an issue of law so of cours rights are affected, even if they have yet to be violated in action. "That is a different issue that has nothing to do with The Arizona Law." Not at all, as it indicates to consular officials another potential thing they need to take active measures over. "Don't you think it prudent that The State Dept. wait until someone is unlawfully detained before they report The Sovereign State of Arizona to The United Nation for something that *MAY* happen in the future?" Two things, firstly, no. I do not think it is prudent to wait until someone is unlawfully detained. The rights are affected the moment the law becomes active (rights being legal figures, not definitive actions occuring). One might argue that they should wait until the law actually becomes active (if it has not already done so), however, given the publicity it makes perfect sense for the secretary of state to make various international bodies aware of the change in status. Report to the UN does not mean Mummy UN is about to descend and wag fingers. Rather, it is a question of informing the relevant bodies to explain the change in status. Like it or not, actually this law does impact rights generally assumed under customary international law. You may shrug (like the ayatollahs) and say "I don't think that should be a right, so I will not respect it", but it is possibly correct (theoretically one needs an opinion or test case from a competent judiciary, which has yet to emerge) to say that America is violating rights to non-discrimination under this law, and if you are entirely comfortuble with that, then why would you have a problem with that? Undoubtably, were the situation reversed, with Americans potentially subjected to legal harassment by police over their nationality, the US state department would similarly demand an explanation and consider right to non-descrimination to be violated. Unoticed by the average american (and Arizona), the state department is in fact an active litigator though bodies like the ICJ and Inter American Court on issues like this, so it is highly usual for them to continue to comply with the formal bureaucratic processes of notifying various bodies of change, in order not to prejudice the US in future cases. It would be highly unfortunate (from the Secretary of States point of view) if in future an action taken by the US court were to fall appart due to a ruling in part based on the application of the Arizona law. It needs to register the fact that it is not in fact the US federal governments position that the Arizona law is not entirely consistent with customary international law. "What happens to your argument if The USSC finds the Arizona Law to be completely Constitutional?" The same thing that happens when the Aytollahs find stoning a woman to death is entirely legal with respect to Iran. What happens is that (I guess) the secretary of state is forced to square the circle somehow. As the USSC considers international treaty obligations to be part of US law, if they find otherwise, the state department position may will have to change, until such time as the issue is tested by a competent international tribunal. The position of the USSC is unlikely to affect, significantly, the position of other governments as to whether the Arizona law violates customary rights to non discrimination, so really it affects jack shit. Other than it might make the secretary of state look a bit silly. "I just think we should resolve the issue before we reporting it to the UN." Well, that depends on a lot of other factors, like what cases the US is currently handling in various international fora. Forwyn: "America doesn't publicly state that their "nationals" are above the law." Non-sequitor. It does however believe that it's nationals are entitled to consular access as a matter of utmost priority, and applies pressure when this is not the case. It even signed and ratified treaty to that effect. Therefore, as a matter of US law (as ratified treaties *are* US law), it should provide it. Seb Member Mon Aug 30 16:52:37 BTW, I hope having had a small window into the many tedious cases that go on before various intrnational tribunals every day, you understand now better why the federal government are mad keen to get this law struck off on the specific grounds that it violates federal rights... states legislatures are just not competent to keep up to date with all the tedious international bullshit that goes on day to day behind the scenes. Having invdividuals states break customary international laws (formal treaties are somewhat easier as the SC can strike them down) makes diplomatic relations and protecting American citizens rights overseas impossible. A simple solution might be to de-federalise, if states rights are so pre-eminent, and collaborate the US armed forces through something like a NATO with the 50 fully soveriegn US states as members. Forwyn Member Mon Aug 30 17:13:47 "Non-sequitor." Excuse me, but how the fuck does Mexico stating that we have no right to detain their illegals(when they SHOOT theirs) in the first place, have no bearing on the discussion of consular notification? When a state is essentially sanctioning the crime in question, the matter becomes a bit trickier. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 14:00:56 Forwyn: Is mexico saying that you have no right to detain their illegals? saiko Member Tue Aug 31 15:05:05 "There are ways to renounce your citizenship. Illegally entering another country(which doesn't allow dual) and trying to pass as a citizen there, with no intention of returning, seems like one of those ways." So you contend that they are... what? Pirates? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 17:03:14 "On Tuesday, June 22, Mexico filed a "friend of the court" brief in support of one of five lawsuits currently pending in federal court challenging the constitutionality of SB 1070. The brief pleads with the court to declare the law unconstitutional and asserts that the country has material legal standing as its own interests and rights are at stake if the law is permitted to go into effect as scheduled. Specifically, the Mexican lawyers insist that the interest in having "consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one state." Furthermore, the brief warns that if the law is put into practice, then the rights of Mexican citizens will be violated as a result of "racial profiling" that will accompany the enforcement of the law." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2543003/posts Forwyn Member Tue Aug 31 19:09:52 Mexico has decried most, if not all, attempts at enforcing existing immigration law, or strengthening it. They attempt to pressure(with lawsuits in US court) civilian groups from assisting Federal officials, pressure Federal officials(with lawsuits in international court) from enforcing existing law, and assist convicted drug dealers in order to get US border patrol agents imprisoned for defending themselves. Any attempts to reduce funding for Mexico(like the Merida initiative) are denounced as racist, as are any attempts to attach strings to the funding. Mexican soldiers openly assist in border crossings by shooting at American citizens on the other side, civilian and agent both, and are never thoroughly investigated. * In 2005 the government of Yucatan produced a handbook and DVD about the risks and implications of crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The guide told immigrants where to find health care, how to get their kids into U.S. schools, and how to send money home. Officials in Yucatan said the guide is a necessity to save lives but some American groups accused the government of encouraging illegal immigration.[46] * In 2005 the Mexican government was criticized for distributing a comic book which offers tips to illegal aliens emigrating to the United States.[47] That comic book recommends to illegal immigrants, once they have safely crossed the border, "Don't call attention to yourself. ... Avoid loud parties. ... Don't become involved in fights." The Mexican government defends the guide as an attempt to save lives. "It's kind of like illegal immigration for dummies," said the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, Mark Krikorian. "Promoting safe illegal immigration is not the same as arguing against it." The comic book does state on its last page that the Mexican Government does not promote illegal crossing at all and only encourages visits to the U.S. with all required documentation. Meanwhile, US consulate workers get SHOT in Mexico, and Mexican officials just blame US drug and immigration laws. @saiko: ? Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 19:39:33 Yes, the whole thing is crazy. I agree. In fact, I think everyone agrees that immigration is a problem right. How do you propose fixing it? I don't want to hear anymore crap until you guys propose a viable means of fixing the problem. Make sure you cover how to pay for it, implement it, and maintain it. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 19:51:14 Forwyn: So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law, it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law. It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here. I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access... I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion? I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers? In terms of economic impact, tax avoiding illegal American expats in Latin America are far more damaging than Latinos in the states. Aeros Member Tue Aug 31 20:18:41 Costa Rica is where American's go to dodge taxes. Why should they be forced to pay Costa Rican taxes? Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 31 20:19:03 If they are breaking the law they should be in jail. BTW, how is Costa Rica this time of years? Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:22:39 Very fucking rainy. Seb Member Tue Aug 31 21:52:02 my post got eaten. show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
saiko Member	Tue Aug 31 23:44:14 Forwyn, Illegal immigrants, you say, are not protected by rights afforded Americans. You now add that they are also no Mexican citizens, presumable so they won't enjoy the rights associated with that either. That seems awfully convenient: there are these people who you don't seem to care for very much, and your argument is that they are like stateless pirates on the high seas, who have no rights whatsoever. That's a bit facile, don't you think?
Forwyn Member	Wed Sep 01 16:57:38 "So, Mexico is defending the rights of it's citizens under customary international law" Like crossing the border illegally? Or not having to identify yourself per state law? "it is not in fact asserting it's citizens are above the law." They're asserting that its citizens shouldn't be held to certain laws, and instructing them how to avoid enforcement. "It's interesting, looking around Costa Rica, to see just how many illegally resident, law breaking, tax evading, bribe paying American retirees there are here." ...kay? "I wonder how the state department were to react were hundreds of septugenarians be locked up in a costa rican jail (they are not pretty) without consular access..." Has the US federal government given said criminals advice on how to continue breaking the law without facing the consequences? Or sent its head of state to openly criticize their laws? "I wounder how the state department would react if every pale, English speaking individual were detained by police on suspicion?" If thats what their laws lead to...its specifically prohibited to officers to consider race under the law in question. "I wonder how they would react if groups of private citizens were to organise armed hunts of white, English speaking individuals, asserting the right to use lethal force in defence of property to shoot people believed to be trespassers?" While those laws exist in many states, the groups you're talking about do not assert this, and follow strict guidelines, specifically not to confront or engage any suspects. Spotting an illegal immigrant and calling Border Patrol on your cell phone is quite different from what you're suggesting; perhaps you should broaden your journalistic horizons. saiko: "Illegal immigrants, you say, are not protected by rights afforded Americans." I said that?
Seb Member	Wed Sep 01 17:58:24 Forwyn: "Like crossing the border illegally? Or not having to identify yourself per state law?" I don't see that at all. Their objection to the law is that measures encouraged by the law can lead to discrimination against lawful immigrants. "...kay?" State deparment would have a fit if central American campineros were wandering around with guns hunting for septugenarian (lot of veterans) who are potentially illegally occupying land (need to be legally resident to own land. I am sure they would have something to say if a law targeted Americans for paperwork... and the press would weep crockodile tears were illegal business (representing the life savings of grandmas and grandpas who decided to retire to the sun) to be agressively persued. And if a few legal people were caught up in it, but detained due to the byzantine administrative system, denied consular access, and wrongfully convicted after a judicial procedure in which they were not provided with translators and therefore adequate advice, I think the state department would have a lot to say. "on how to continue breaking the law" It looks to me like they are telling them not to commit secondary crimes once they have gotten into America. "Or sent its head of state to openly criticize their laws?" State department actually tries to *draft* the laws throughout latin America. "its specifically prohibited to officers to consider race under the law in question." Oh, but we all know that's not how it works in practice. "groups you're talking about do not assert this" Let me find a link... of the group in question.
saiko Member	Wed Sep 01 18:37:51 "I said that?" I'm afraid I made an ass out of you and me there. I'm okay with affording illegal immigrants the same rights given American citizens.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 01 18:48:32 Then write your Parliamentarian and leave our borders alone. They are none of your business..
saiko Member	Thu Sep 02 00:54:39 Was that directed at me? I'm in and out of American borders all the time.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 06:21:55 Then stay home.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 02 09:30:21 Hot Rod: An American telling other nationalities to leave their borders alone is a bit rich... How about you get your politicos to stop interfering in the affairs of other first?
saiko Member	Thu Sep 02 14:13:26 "Then stay home." Um. No? Why the hell should I listen to you?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 15:52:21 Seb, ever hear of The British Empire and all of the atrocities committed?
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 02 16:02:29 Time to Godwin this shit up. Hot Rod Member Thu Sep 02 15:52:21 Seb, ever hear of The British Empire and all of the atrocities committed? That's like saying that a German can never criticize American foreign policy because 60 years ago his countrymen were Nazi scumbags tha committed atrocities throughout Europe. A ridiculous assertion at best.
Hot Wad Member	Thu Sep 02 16:08:31 No more good must be attempted than the people can bear. - Thomas Jefferson
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 16:44:44 Rugian - A ridiculous assertion at best. Are you saying that history has no relevance to modern discussions? "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~George Santayana Our politicians have not learned the lessons presented by The British Empire as yet, except the one of permanent colonization. We don't do that like they did. Sure we interfere and sometimes it is even a really bad idea to do so, but we do so to help other countries to find democracy. I agree that we should stay out of other peoples business, I think we should be isolationist and leave the rest of the world to themselves, but in today's world that is not always possible. As for our border problems with Mexico, that is no ones business but ours. Especially Europes.
Garyd Member	Thu Sep 02 16:54:12 Every country in Europe has stiffer and more heavily enforced immigration laws than the US. Since when is breaking and enetering a human right?
saiko Member	Thu Sep 02 16:54:35 "As for our border problems with Mexico, that is no ones business but ours. Especially Europes." And, potentially, Mexico's. And whoever they see fit to drag in.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 02 17:06:18 HotRod: "ever hear of The British Empire and all of the atrocities committed?" Find something equivalent to the American shenanigans in the Philopenes... "Are you saying that history has no relevance to modern discussions?" Is the British Empire currently extant? Are we actually committing any attrocities at the moment (other than those due to our involvement with your current adventures). "We don't do that like they did." Actually, to a remarkable extent you do. I think possibly you misunderstand to a great degree how the British empire functioned. There were never more than 70k troops and fewer number of administrators in India for example, and rule from Westminster, as opposed to through local governments, was the norm for all but about 60 odd years. Compare to Afghanistan. Very similar.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 02 17:10:16 garyd: "Since when is breaking and enetering a human right?" It isn't, and nobody says it is. Racial profiling on the other hand, is. There are customary rights that individuals the world over are entitled to, and simply being in another country (legally or illegally) does not mean they vanish.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 17:21:56 Seb - Racial profiling on the other hand, is. In the Arizona Law that The State Dept. saw fit to include in their report to The United Nations concerning our Human Rights status local law enforcement was *SPECIFICALLY FORBIDDEN* from racial profiling. Seb - There are customary rights that individuals the world over are entitled to, and simply being in another country (legally or illegally) does not mean they vanish. If you are involved in a brush with the law where a citizen is required to show an ID it is not a "customery right" for an alien 'legal or otherwise' to *NOT* show an ID. Even a credential diplomat is required to show ID in such instances I believe.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 02 17:37:26 Hot Rod: "In the Arizona Law that The State Dept. saw fit to include in their report to The United Nations concerning our Human Rights status local law enforcement was *SPECIFICALLY FORBIDDEN* from racial profiling." Direct versus indirect descrimination. In zeroth order, saying "Jews must be treated equally and thats a fucking law", but a set of laws criminilising observing of the Sabbath would still be discriminatory, even though you could say that it was not the race being singled out. It's a complex field, and you are not going to get a definite ruling short of a test case. The state departments obligation though, is to defend American rights abroad, and to that end they are probably not keen on a similar law being applied that may affect American citizens. I'm not particularly interested in doing an exhaustive analysis of which part of the law it is and what customary rights are breached, the point is that the Mexicans think there are, and probably the State Department thinks that a case could be made and are looking to block this off. Potential American citizens they might be worried about: workers in the middle east or Africa come to mind.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 17:43:47 I have no idea what you are talking about. Every country in the world, that I an aware of, requires an individual to show ID during a police investigation of any sort at any level regardless of the offense being investigated.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Sep 02 17:50:35 And in many of those countries, if you refuse, the consequences can be severe.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 02 19:08:02 "Their objection to the law is that measures encouraged by the law can lead to discrimination against lawful immigrants." Can lead? How so? Its specifically prohibited. Unless you're suggesting that racial profiling is indeed a problem that exists with or without this law? Now THAT would be logical. "State deparment would have a fit if central American campineros were wandering around with guns hunting for septugenarian (lot of veterans) who are potentially illegally occupying land (need to be legally resident to own land." If those guys were wandering around their own border, armed because our septugenarians regularly commit border violence, then our State Department would have no case, and rightfully so. "I am sure they would have something to say if a law targeted Americans for paperwork... and the press would weep crockodile tears were illegal business (representing the life savings of grandmas and grandpas who decided to retire to the sun) to be agressively persued." Doubt it. I don't see our general populace caring beyond a glance about illegal American immigrants being targeted if it were a genuine issue that a majority of Costa Ricans were upset about. "And if a few legal people were caught up in it, but detained due to the byzantine administrative system, denied consular access, and wrongfully convicted after a judicial procedure in which they were not provided with translators and therefore adequate advice, I think the state department would have a lot to say." Is this anything more than conjecture? "It looks to me like they are telling them not to commit secondary crimes once they have gotten into America." Yeah, "here's how not to get caught". Thats how you promote "safe illegal immigration" then? "State department actually tries to *draft* the laws throughout latin America." There's nothing wrong with promoting our own interests, so long as they don't conflict with those of the home country. "Oh, but we all know that's not how it works in practice." Again, there's not much you can do on paper beyond SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITING it. Unless you're suggesting we just eliminate the police force because they might ask a guy - that he already pulled over - for his papers, because he's got a dark tan. "Let me find a link... of the group in question." Still waiting. The large groups, the first ones in the arena, the ones demonized by the media at their inception, assaulted by rancorous students at a college presentation, are by rule non-confrontational.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 02 21:57:08 Hot Rod: See posts earlier. Forwyn: "Its specifically prohibited." Indirect versus direct discrimination. "armed because our septugenarians regularly commit border violence," Armed because Americans believe they have a right to protect "their property", even if to own said property they have to be legally resident, which most are not. "Doubt it. I don't see our general populace caring beyond a glance about illegal American immigrants being targeted if it were a genuine issue that a majority of Costa Ricans were upset about." Well, you may say that, but the state department is an active litigator when it feels American citizens rights are threatened over seas. So their position here is as consistent as yours: you wish America minded it's own business and ignored infringements of American citizens rights abroad, but it does not, and equally, other governments do not like it either. Change the world, by all means, best start local eh? "Is this anything more than conjecture?" No, it is a list of grievances that form the basis of ongoing cases Mexico is prosecuting America in various fora around the world. "Yeah, "here's how not to get caught"" That is your interpretation. Also, seems pertinent... perhaps the state department should give similar advice to hikers in countries bordering Iran and North Korea. "There's nothing wrong with promoting our own interests," Unless you are Mexico? "SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITING it." Have you considered the fact that given there are several cases that have been brought against America for violation of due process to Latinos by state police and state prosecutors, that this law is likely to prejudice people who are legal but are unable to satisfy state police? There are probably a lot of customary rights that are implicated, but you would need to read the specific documents. "Still waiting." Lost it. It was a particularly nutty guy, featured in one of the cases Mexico is bringing or has brought. I'l let you know if my GF remembers. Klu Klux Klan like... the sort of thing that America would designate a terrorist organisation if they were Arabs.
Forwyn Member	Mon Sep 06 22:05:59 "Indirect versus direct discrimination." So like I said, just eliminate the police force. Because obviously, specifically prohibiting them isn't good enough. "Armed because Americans believe they have a right to protect "their property", even if to own said property they have to be legally resident, which most are not." Yes, if illegal resident Americans started shooting at civilian patrols who were simply going to report them to the authorities, I would agree with them defending themselves. "Well, you may say that, but the state department is an active litigator when it feels American citizens rights are threatened over seas. So their position here is as consistent as yours: you wish America minded it's own business and ignored infringements of American citizens rights abroad, but it does not, and equally, other governments do not like it either." Different from your original statement, though true. The actions of the state department are not the same as those of the general populace and the media, though. "No, it is a list of grievances that form the basis of ongoing cases Mexico is prosecuting America in various fora around the world." To quote you: "All two of them?" Reasonable grievances, though. "That is your interpretation." What other interpretation is there to a comic that displays how to safely cross the border without being caught, and after getting across, how to successfully coalesce with US society, again, without getting caught? "Also, seems pertinent... perhaps the state department should give similar advice to hikers in countries bordering Iran and North Korea." Maybe so. I doubt the comic will contain information about how to evade the Revolutionary Guard and make a life for yourself in Tehran without arousing suspicious. '"There's nothing wrong with promoting our own interests," Unless you are Mexico?' Don't selectively quote me, thats pretty fucking stupid of you. I like to think you're better than that. "There's nothing wrong with promoting our own interests, ***so long as they don't conflict with those of the home country.***" "Have you considered the fact that given there are several cases that have been brought against America for violation of due process to Latinos by state police and state prosecutors, that this law is likely to prejudice people who are legal but are unable to satisfy state police?" As I said, the cases are few and far between, and if there are cases of officers being overly zealous with the discretionary powers given to them, they should be reprimanded. "Lost it. It was a particularly nutty guy, featured in one of the cases Mexico is bringing or has brought. I'l let you know if my GF remembers. Klu Klux Klan like... the sort of thing that America would designate a terrorist organisation if they were Arabs." So none of the main groups. There have been no documented cases of one of the sane(reasonably? I mean, how sane can you be to be marching around the AZ/TX/NM/CA border for no pay?) groups shooting illegals. Many of them are armed because of the tendency for drug runners and Mexican soldiers to shoot at US citizens.
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J.B. Member	Thu Sep 09 21:02:35 Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! 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J.B. Member	Thu Sep 09 21:02:37 Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! Down with Camaban! Down With Fascism! Down With Unfair Moderating! 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