Utopia Talk / Politics / Arming for Home Defense

Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 08 12:33:21 Beyond The Concealed Carry Gun: Arming for Home Defense by Duane A. Daiker 12/08/2009 Personal self defense typically focuses on the needs of private citizens who choose to lawfully carry concealed weapons as they go about their normal life. As such, we often focus on finding the best guns and equipment in the smallest packages -- guns and accessories that we can reasonably conceal on our person. For this reason, I think a lot of us can lose focus of the fact that handguns are notoriously poor weapons for stopping a fight. When we are forced to utilize a firearm on another living thing, it is solely for the purpose of getting the threat to cease its hostile action as quickly as possible. A large percentage of people shot with a handgun survive, and many others die hours after being shot, because handguns and their relatively small projectiles can be very ineffective at producing a quick stop -- in other words, neutralizing the threat. Legendary New York cop and modern day gunfighter Jim Cirillo, veteran of over 250 armed encounters before passing away in 2007, shared many real world stories of suspects who absorbed multiple handgun rounds without being taken out of the fight. Of course, we cannot walk the streets of modern America with a large caliber rifle like cowboys in the Old West. For concealed carry, handguns -- and even compact handguns -- are the norm. However, how many of us get so focused on our latest concealed carry gun that we rely on that same gun for defending our homes -- where size and concealability doesn't matter. I am afraid many people who read this magazine are content to have their designated home defense weapon be a Smith & Wesson Model 60 snub-nose, or a Kahr PM-9, or a similar sub-compact pistol. I believe this because there was a point in time when I did the same thing. Much of the topic of choosing a home defense weapon is beyond the scope of this magazine, but my hope in this article is to get all of you thinking about the proper weapons for defense of your home and family. Larger is Usually Better When it comes to the effectiveness of firearms, larger is usually better. Larger guns have larger bullets -- one key to effective stopping power. Big bullets make bigger holes, which tend to incapacitate living targets faster. While there certainly can be overkill on this issue, and you need to be mindful of over-penetration issues in an urban environment, there is no reason to have a home defense weapon of a minor caliber. Additionally, larger firearms will generally have a larger ammunition capacity. While five rounds of .38 Special may be adequate for your average confrontation on the street, there is no reason to limit yourself on a home defense weapon. The types of confrontations that can happen at your home have a higher potential for multiple attackers -- i.e., armed home invasions, or post-disaster riot conditions and the like. The immediate availability of more rounds will never be a disadvantage in a gun stored in your home -- when the chips are down, 16 rounds available in your Glock 22 will always be more comforting than 6 rounds in your Kahr PM-40. Larger firearms are (unless we are talking about very large caliber rifles with significant recoil) easier to shoot. Larger guns weigh more, which absorbs more of the perceived recoil. Larger guns also distribute the recoil better, and are easier to hang onto under recoil. Plus, longer barrels (even on handguns) create a larger sighting radius between the front and rear sights, making slight errors in the sight picture far less important. And, larger guns tend tend to be able to shooter longer distances with greater accuracy, which can be important depending upon where you live and what types of threats you may face. Full-Size Handguns At a minimum, you should consider having a full-size handgun of a larger caliber (preferably a .40 S&W or .45 ACP, although a 9mm would do) available for home defense purposes. Since the sunset of the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994, high-capacity guns make a good choice, and are readily available. A full size gun like a Glock 24, or better yet, a Glock 35, with 16 rounds of .40 S&W on tap, may be hard to carry concealed, but makes for a decent home defense gun. While I am not necessarily a huge fan of weapon mounted lights on carry guns, I do like them on full-size home defense handguns. It is easy to store your home defense gun with a light attached, and the ability to have a free hand to open doors, flip light switches, dial 911 and similar actions is a real plus. Of course, I would still keep a regular flashlight handy for those times when you don't want to point your gun at the same thing you want to illuminate. The new styles of weapon lights from SureFire, Insight, and other companies also offer the option of integrated lasers, which can be a useful tool in a home defense situation. Regardless of what you chose, however, a full-size handgun will still not offer the advantages of the long guns discussed below. Carbines A carbine is a light, short-barreled semi-automatic rifle that is often referred to in the popular media as an â??assault weapon.â?? That term, of course, has developed some very negative connotations, and I think that â??home defense carbineâ?? sounds a lot better and is a more accurate description. There are a wide variety of carbines from which to choose, from pistol-caliber carbines like the Beretta Storm to more traditional carbines like the AR-15 or AK-47. Carbines offer a lot of versatility over a handgun for home defense purposes. Carbines are available in serious rifle calibers like .223 or .308 that provide far superior stopping power compared to pistol rounds. Furthermore, carbines are long guns that are capable of far more accuracy and greater useable range. While realistic pistol ranges may top out at 25 to 50 yards, carbines can be easily used at 100+ yards or more, depending on your sighting system. Carbines also tend to have larger magazine capacity, with magazines of 30 or more rounds being fairly commonplace. Of course, if a carbine is your home defense weapon of choice, it might be a good idea to start stocking up on high-capacity magazines, given the threat of pending legislation in the U.S. Congress to limit â??large capacity feeding devices.â?? Both the fun and the â??dangerâ?? of carbines is in the wealth of accessories available, some of which can be quite expensive. I would recommend that any long gun used for home defense be equipped with some type of weapon-mounted light. While this is optional with handguns, there is just no good way to operate a long gun and hold a flashlight. Since nighttime encounters are likely with a home defense gun, some type of weapon light should be considered as required equipment. Carbines are also great platforms to mount optics because the rifles are generally capable of much better accuracy than the average shooter can wring out of iron sights. Also, the newest generation of no-magnification red-dot type optics is fantastic for getting the type of quick sight picture that is well suited to a close-quarters home defense gun. The types and varieties of illuminated reticle optics on the market are well beyond the scope of this article, but remember to shop for an optic that is designed for close quarters work and that is illuminated in a way that it won't fail at the moment you need it most. Your sighting system shouldn't depend upon a $3 battery. One criticism of carbines is that they can be expensive -- although they don't have to be. A very adequate AK-47 of reasonable quality can be purchased and outfitted with a weapon light for around $500. A well-equipped AR-15, like the one pictured in this article, can easily top $2,000. My AR shown in this article is a Smith & Wesson M&P-15A with a SureFire Picatinny Forend, a SureFire Vertical Foregrip Weaponlight, and a Trijicon TriPower self-illuminated sight. I have been very happy with this set-up. The SureFire light also serves as a vertical foregrip, which is excellent for handling the rifle in close quarters, and the light itself has two levels of illumination: low-level LEDs for navigation, and a high-powered xenon/halogen light to illuminate potential threats. The Trijicon has three sources of illumination for the red-dot reticle: a light gathering fiber-optic, a back-up tritium light source, and batteries for the primary illumination. With three sources of power, you can be pretty sure that when you pick up your rifle to confront a threat, an illuminated reticle will be there. However, there are many other carbines and options out there to suit your needs and your budget for a home defense carbine. Shotguns Over time, I have come to the conclusion that a shotgun is the quintessential home defense weapon. First, shotguns are extremely versatile. There is a wide variety of ammo available, from bird shot, to buck shot, to slugs. Ammo choices can be tailored for use inside a home, where over penetration of walls can be an issue, or for much longer ranges. Shotguns can throw a brutally effective shot pattern at ten feet, or can be deadly accurate with slugs at 100 yards or more. Other types of specialty loads can fit most every need in between those ranges. New loads are even available that greatly reduce felt recoil, even with serious defensive loads. The right shotgun is also very reliable. Pump shotguns in particular have a very simple manual of arms, are easy to operate, and are not prone to failure, even with minimal maintenance and lack of regular cleaning (not recommended, but it happens). Pump action shotguns are quite inexpensive, and are readily available. The classic pump shotgun is the Remington 870 series, either in the Wingmaster configuration, or the less expensive Express model. I often see police trade-in 870s for sale at gun shows for $200 or less. They usually have scratches and cosmetic issues, but rarely show any serious wear. Even a new 870 can be had for under $300 in many configurations. For home defense I would recommend an 18 or 20 inch barrel, for ease of handling in tight spaces. While the common bead front sight will do, you may want to consider holding out for, or upgrading to, a barrel with actual rifle sights. Eighteen inch replacement barrels with rifle sights are available from several sources, and most shotgun barrels are easily interchangeable by the user. Many other accessories can be added, like replacement stocks, extended (high-capacity) magazine tubes, and more. For a weapon mounted light, I recommend the SureFire lights that replace the forend stock and are easily activated with the support hand. You may also want to consider adding the proper hardware for mounting a sling, which can be very useful if you have to transition to a handgun or otherwise free up your hands. Conclusions This article briefly touches on some of the more popular options for home defense, but is hardly a comprehensive guide to this vast topic. Entire books have been written on this subject, and I recommend further research on any of these topics that interest you, because a detailed treatment is beyond both the scope of my expertise and the focus of this magazine. Most importantly, I recommend that you take your home defense weapon as seriously as your carry weapon, and that you obtain professional training, and practice regularly. Any number of reputable schools provide training in the use of carbines or shotguns that will allow you to obtain the maximum benefit from whichever system you choose. Each of our needs for home defense is different, based upon where we live and the threats we face. Someone living in the deserts of Arizona faces different threats than someone living in Miami, Florida. But we all need to give serious consideration to how we will protect our homes in a variety of extreme circumstances, whether it be for defense from home invasions, or defense of life and property following a riot or natural disaster, or even defense against foreign enemies on American soil. Your home is your castle, and it should be well-protected! I hope this article will inspire you to put as much thought into your home defense as you do your personal defense. This article comes from our friends at the United States Concealed Carry Association. Their job is to keep you safe. Click here to stay informed on concealed carry tactics. Duane A. Daiker is a Contributing Editor for Concealed Carry Magazine. Duane has been a life-long shooter and goes about his life as an armed, responsible, and somewhat opinionated citizen. Duane can be reached at Daiker@RealWorldCarryGear.com. Additional articles and his Real World Carry Gear columns can be viewed at www.RealWorldCarryGear.com. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34682
W H Y New Member	Tue Dec 08 12:40:42 Why did you lie? Do you think social liberals advocate the extermination of 1 billion people?
Average American Member	Tue Dec 08 12:56:10 "approaching" 1billion. Because we all know when talking about the killing of hundreds of millions of families, one always talks about the EXACT number of deaths and because there is such a huge moral difference...
Average American Member	Tue Dec 08 12:57:05 * You sick, genocidal, mass murdering wannabe lying fuck.
Cowardly Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 08 12:59:02 Why did you lie? Do you think social liberals advocate the extermination of 1 billion people?
earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Dec 08 13:15:42 people should focus more on being good with the weapons they have. if you have $1000 that you wish to spend on a gun for home defense... buy a $200 gun and spend $800 on ammo & training. not $900 on a gun and a bunch of gear queer accessories and $100 on a few boxes of ammo.
The Powers That Be Member	Tue Dec 08 13:16:18 Tactical 12 gauge with .00 buckshot. At least, that's what I'm using for now until I get off my ass and pattern out a few different loads.
Howcome New Member	Tue Dec 08 13:18:31 Why did you lie? Do you think social liberals advocate the extermination of 1 billion people?
earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Dec 08 13:18:39 " At least, that's what I'm using for now until I get off my ass and pattern out a few different loads. " exactly :D standard off-the-shelf shotty, reasonably cheap ammo that you can afford to train with and try different shit with to make you a better handler of the weapon.
The Powers That Be Member	Tue Dec 08 13:19:31 Oh, and sights are incredibly important when using a tactical shotgun. Get yourself a good set of iron sights.
The Powers That Be Member	Tue Dec 08 13:21:54 "not $900 on a gun and a bunch of gear queer accessories" Earthpig is correct - the only accessories I would recommend would be a set of quality iron sights, a carry strap for your weapon, and possibly a shell pouch for your butt-stock. And I'm referring to a shotgun for the above accessories, as I believe it's the best home defense weapon you can buy.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 08 13:26:28 I heard today that Lake City Arsenal was told by the government to cut back the manufacture of civilian ammo. It was from a friend of mine who has a friend who works there.
The Powers That Be Member	Tue Dec 08 13:27:55 "It was from a friend of mine who has a friend who works there." That's not hearsay at all.
Milton Bradley Member	Tue Dec 08 13:30:08 "I heard today that Lake City Arsenal was told by the government to cut back the manufacture of civilian ammo. It was from a friend of mine who has a friend who works there. " Umm... yeah... this is BS Hot Rod, you should know better than try to pass this off as inside information.
Sarcasm Member	Tue Dec 08 13:31:40 rofl...
Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 08 13:43:29 It was just a comment for Pete's sake. Do you believe every word you hear on this forum as long as it doesn't come from me?
I want the truth New Member	Tue Dec 08 13:44:49 Why did you lie? Do you think social liberals advocate the extermination of 1 billion people?
Sarcasm Member	Tue Dec 08 13:49:24 Why does the genocidal lying bastard pretend that vicious rumor mongering of lies is just an innocent comment? Is it because hes a pathological lying bastard?
jergul Member	Tue Dec 08 14:18:35 Is not the claymore mine the ultimate home defence system. For example mounted behind a fake wall so that the dispersal area covers the entrance to your panic room?
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue Dec 08 14:21:36 Shotgun with 00 buck. Don't forget to have a good cleaning service handy in case someone really does attempt to break in. You don't want to clean that mess up yourself.
jergul Member	Tue Dec 08 14:27:24 Seems a rather puny and impotent variant of the claymore mine that buckshot variant WoO. What is next, huggle the intruders to death?
Still Well Member	Tue Dec 08 14:28:03 You need nukes. Deterrence is the best option.
jergul Member	Tue Dec 08 14:28:31 Claymore nukes! Thank you for thinking out of the box SW.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Dec 08 14:33:06 automated systems separate, emotionally, the person defending his home from the intruder. would make home defenders more likely to use it on people that do not deserve it -- like the daughter's boyfriend caught sneaking in at night. emotional separation should be minimized. (we've discussed this before, jergul. no coincidence that even light machine guns are often doctrinally dictated to be crew-fired. you aim ["left two clicks"], i shoot, we both tell ourselves that we aren't the one doing the killing.)
jergul Member	Tue Dec 08 14:38:48 tsk EP. Why do you think I have the claymore protecting the panic room? You would have to flee there - gaining enhanced emotional connection, or lure the boyfriend to the hall, then enter panic room and locking him out - again enhanced emotional connection. Also, the claymore would cause some material damage, so would not be discharged on a whim. In all clearly superior by the metrics important to limit spurious firings.
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Nimatzo Member	Sun Feb 21 19:17:30 We have to do something about these fucking bots. I nearly had a heart attack seeing Hot Rods name on the boards with a thread title I have no recollection of (though he was back from the dead).
saiko Member	Mon Feb 22 03:51:04 FFS it was someone's alternate account.
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Feb 22 04:14:38 How do people bring these old threads up?
saiko Member	Mon Feb 22 04:16:52 Look into a mirror and say "Hot Rod" three times. Then change the thread number in the URL.
CrownRoyal Member	Mon Feb 22 05:17:19 Ah, got it.
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European Championship 2005 :: XviD/DivX Heroes By Machinemen :: MPEG/xVCD HDNet Fights Presents MFC 20 Destined for Greatness HDTV XviD-KYR Primal Power by Kevin Secours (2 DVDs) :: DVD Kyokushin karate - world oyama vs seidokaikan karate challenge event 1991 :: MPEG/xVCD UFC 93 Jeremy Horn Vs Rousimar Palhares 17th January 09 XviD-XS :: XviD/DivX Tornado Roll & Inverted Guard :: DVD Inside MMA 12 19 2008 XviD IceMan Simco - BJJ for MMA vol 5 - Rubber Guard Xvid :: XviD/DivX Hardcore Fighting Championship 09 23 08 PDTV XviD-W4F :: XviD/DivX Nogueira Vale Tudo Japan Ashtanga Yoga - The Primary Series with David Swenson :: XviD/DivX WEC 42 Miguell Torres vs Brian Bowles Main Event HDTV 720p BluntzRip :: x264 Rare- Ringside Training & Instruction and Advanced Training & Instruction AVI :: XviD/DivX Renzo Gracie Legacy (KOR) 07 <Sengoku>6] Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs Moise Rimbon (2008-11-01) www kimjudas blogspot com :: XviD/DivX UFC 5 - Return of the Beast (part 1) danny dyers deadliest men so 2 ep 3 Mike Tyson Raw And Uncut Ep 6 DSR XviD-W4F :: XviD/DivX Elastic Steel avi <Sengoku>7] Jong Man Kim vs Masanori Kanehara (www kimjudas blogspot com) :: XviD/DivX best of Badr Hari 24 fights :: XviD/DivX The Story of Shogun vs Liddell By Machinemen :: Other Art Of Strength - Firepower Kettlebell Workout <DVD>rip] :: DVD Dr Yang Jwing Ming - Taiji Wrestling - Advanced Takedown Techniques Disc 2 (AVI) :: MPEG/xVCD Dream 6 Middle Weight GP Finals Full Event 2008 HDTV XviD-JETSET :: XviD/DivX HDNet Fights Strikeforce Destruction 2008 720p HDTV x264-OMiCRON :: x264 Introduction & Technique for Club Swinging <DVDRip> :: XviD/DivX <K>1 WGP FINAL 16] Su Jung Lim vs Chen Qing (2009-09-26) :: XviD/DivX Commando Krav DVD rip Vol 4 :: XviD/DivX National Geographic - Fight Science UFC 106 Countdown from UFC com UFC 91 Pre Fight Press Conference XviD IceMan :: XviD/DivX WEC Wreckcage 18 HDTV XViD-KYR :: HDTV UFC 96: Jackson vs Jardine - 10 Minute Preview :: XviD/DivX Shooto - Tradition - Bendy Casimir vs Shinji Sasaki :: XviD/DivX Dream 10 Full Event XviD BluntzRip :: HDTV Lou Gross's Structural Connective Tissue Stretching DVD 4 Xvid Latin Fury 9 - Complete PPV Broadcast - *** BY tabascodan** :: DVD Eating Raw & Superfoods (Simple & Easy Nutrition Ebooks) <> PDFs] :: Other Vitor 'shaolin' Ribeiro - Three Dimensions Of Shaolin DVDRip <POR> Hard ENG subs :: XviD/DivX festival des arts martiaux paris-bercy 2008 :: XviD/DivX Ultimate Fight Night 19 - Single Fights (LOW QUALITY AVI) :: Other Grandmaster Cheung's WING CHUN KUNG FU :: XviD/DivX Gokor - Leglocks 4 avi Inside MMA 4 24 2009 avi Rodrigo Medeiros Favorite Submissions DVD (BJJ-Elite) DVDRip XviD-UPiNSMOKE :: XviD/DivX Tools of the Trade Vol 2 DVDRip :: XviD/DivX Jerome Le Banner vs Ladislav Kovarik Matt Thornton's Functional JKD Series2_vol3 :: XviD/DivX (KOR) 11 <Sengoku>6] LW GP final (2008-11-01) www kimjudas blogspot com :: XviD/DivX The Ultimate Fighter S09E01 720p HDTV x264-aAF :: x264 DEEP 38 IMPACT XviD-KH :: XviD/DivX War on the Shore 11 Yodsanklai Fairtex 17 fights :: XviD/DivX The Ultimate Fighter S09E04 720p HDTV x264-aAF :: x264 Sambo - Vladislav Koulikov vol 02 - Arm Wrist And Shoulder Locks avi UFC 106 Countdown HDTV XviD-KYR :: XviD/DivX Strikeforce at the Playboy Mansion II PDTV XviD-KYR :: XviD/DivX The Twister (Eddie Bravo) DVD Extras (Extras only) :: DVD RMA - Vladimir Vasiliev - Systema - Fundamentals of Knife Defense :: XviD/DivX UFC 108 Preview flv Shifu Shi Yanzi -The Power Within Vol 1-The Movement that Breaks a Thousand Movements - DVDrip :: XviD/DivX <DREAM>8] Shinya Aoki vs Hayato Sakurai (www kimjudas blogspot com) :: x264 Genki Sudo vs Kid Yamamoto Documentary :: XviD/DivX Marco Lala - FightingSecrets Vol03 - Ab Training avi KOTC No Holds Barred 2007 PPV DSRip XviD-aAF :: Other UFC 101 Declaration full Preview plus Forrest Griffin Interview on UFC 101 wmv Kenny Florian MMA/No Gi Seminar Muay Thai from Thai TV, 2009-09-13, Channel 7 Stadium :: XviD/DivX M-1: Rob Broughton vs Jessie Gibbs (LOW QUALITY AVI) :: Other WEC 39 Brown vs Garcia XviD IceMan :: XviD/DivX Ultimate Fight Night 18 - Weigh-In's :: XviD/DivX Randy Couture-Learn To Fight and Win Disc 1 Special Tactics DVDRip XviD-UPiNSMOKE :: XviD/DivX KOTC Cage Girls Disk 2 of 4 :: DVD <PL>KSW 12: Pudzianowski vs Najman :: DVD UFC Unleashed 2009-01-14 XviD IceMan :: XviD/DivX Ross Enamait boxing newsletter archive pdf Matt Hughes fights * By: pmikep :: Other Hontai Yoshin Ryu: demo in Sweden :: XviD/DivX 7000 Feet DVDRip Xvid-MaM Sengoku no Ran 2009 Part2 :: WMV/ASF Jeet Kune Do-Dan Inosanto-Trapping (reseed) UFC 97 Redemption Part 1 XMMA 7 Inferno Main Fights Crack XvID :: XviD/DivX Yarennoka - New Years Eve 2007 JPN PPV Ver, :: XviD/DivX Pride/K-1 "Dynamite!! 2002 " 28 8 2002 DREAM 8 Welterweight Grand Prix HDTV XviD-aAF Alistair Overeem hl by Damien :: WMV/ASF Secrets Of Chute Boxe 1-6 WEC 39 720p HDTV x264-KYR :: x264 WEC 29 - Paulo Filho vs Joe Doerksen :: XviD/DivX Pedro Sauer - The Path to Black Belt (From White Belt to Blue Belt) Over 140 Submission Grappling Armlocks From The Guard Silat Suffian - Bela Diri :: DVD UFC 93 Franklin Vs Henderson EXTRAS NTSC DVDR-NTX :: DVD Legends of the Octagon Pack <Ken> Randy, Royce, Tank] :: XviD/DivX Baji Quan - Original Style - Vol 2 - Adam Hsu :: Other 2009 11 27 The MMA Show XviD-JR Raised In The Ring - Muay Thai Documentary
Exodus New Member	Sun Feb 28 04:34:15 Hi, as you may already found I am fresh here. I will be glad to get some assistance at the start. Thanks and good luck everyone! ;)
patom Member	Wed Mar 03 06:33:49 Here is what Hot Rod needed for home defense: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTPz59y5538&feature=related
leeroyr3 New Member	Sun Mar 14 18:02:35 Hello people, I just registered on this excellent forum and wished to say hiya! Have a terrific day!
Jarredfall New Member	Thu Apr 01 22:36:01 hello everybody I just thought it would be good to introduce myself to everyone! Can't wait to start some good conversations! -Marshall Thanks again!
phormbrer New Member	Thu Apr 01 22:37:01 Hi all, i hope to join the discussion soon i have some very strong opinions i hope i get to know you all soon! [IMG]http://www...m/47xFMd46ie7B/blank.gif[/IMG]
NeverWoods Member	Thu Apr 01 23:07:36 The ghost of Hot Rod.
BitBiaphy New Member	Fri Apr 02 01:06:53 Buenas noches This forum rocks.. I really liked it... Chaoo [URL=http://www.../pngd55nFojmJX.png[/IMG][/URL]
INSANE Member	Fri Apr 02 03:31:02 The bots remind us of HR, how nice of them.
BitBiaphy Member	Sun Apr 04 01:41:04 Greetings I just wanted to say hi to everyone Arrivederci [URL=http://www.../pngd55nFojmJX.png[/IMG][/URL]
Forwyn Member	Sun Apr 04 01:53:03 Can you believe HR was on a hospital gurney 17 days later?
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Sun Apr 04 01:56:55 All that planing and he couldn't stop the Reaper. =(
BitBiaphy Member	Thu Apr 08 13:00:47 Bonjour I just wanted to say hi to everyone Bye! [URL=http://www.../pngd55nFojmJX.png[/IMG][/URL]
God Emperor Obama Member	Sun Apr 11 10:13:00 t
Pope Benedict Member	Sun Apr 11 10:36:15 TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
adelinaitaly New Member	Tue Apr 13 07:39:29 Dear friends, My name is Adelina. I am a 22 years girl from Italy. I was looking for a free translation software and I found one. Program's name is Babel Fish and iIt supports 75 languages. I installed it but I could not understand how to use it. I am not a computer expert. Can someone help me please on how to run this. The link is here: http://access.im/3/babelfish I thank you very much for your help.
Clicilmkepliz New Member	Tue Apr 20 20:11:10 Please delete this message....
Nakybizarry New Member	Fri Apr 23 23:32:47 Instantly translate entire web pages, blogs or documents in a single click using our miraculous online translation software. Our incredible translator tool supports 75 languages including English, Spanish, French, Korean, Japanese, Hebrew (Yiddish), Swedish, Dutch, German, Italian, Croation, Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Traditional), Portugese, Russian, Serbian, Turkish and more! It also comes loaded with a leading dictionary, spelling and definition package. Use our simple and intuitive translation software to translate words, webpages or document formats such as Word, PDF and text. Download our amazing translation software for free and start translating now! You can download it here: [URL=http://fishbabel.notlong.com]Babel Fish[/URL]
Sahra66 New Member	Mon May 03 05:08:58 Heya guys and girls, can someone please help me out? I arrived here another day by way of google but now can't discover once again the post I was reading that time . And before somebody asks, no I'm not blond merely not that excellent with computer systems hehe. Kiss
enzynceffelay New Member	Sun May 09 06:54:36 Whats's Up i'm fresh here, I hit upon this website I have found It truly helpful & its helped me so much. I should be able to give something back and assist other users like it has helped me. Cheers, See You Later
enzynceffelay Member	Sun May 09 20:13:00 Hi-ya i am fresh here, I came accross this message board I have found It exceedingly accommodating & its helped me tons. I should be able to give something back and guide others like its helped me. Cheers, See Ya Later
enzynceffelay Member	Fri May 21 04:15:45 Hi i'm new to this. I came accross this message board I have found It incredibly accessible & it has helped me out alot. I should be able to contribute & support others like it has helped me. Thank You, Catch You Around
enzynceffelay Member	Sun Jun 06 14:15:26 Hello im fresh here. I came accross this board I have found It amply accessible and it has helped me out a lot. I should be able to contribute and support other users like its helped me. Thanks, Catch You Later
enzynceffelay Member	Sat Jun 12 17:20:41 Howdy i am new to this, I hit upon this forum I find It vastly accessible & it's helped me a lot. I should be able to contribute & assist other users like it has helped me. Cheers, Catch You Later
WarreDavid Member	Wed Dec 21 11:10:12 MESSAGE
XRumerTest Member	Sat Jun 09 02:15:19 Hello. And Bye.
WilliamTheBastard Member	Mon Jun 11 15:23:45 .
XRumerTest Member	Tue May 07 05:13:59 Hello. And Bye.
XRumerTest Member	Wed Dec 11 12:31:48 Hello. And Bye.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Dec 22 08:39:32 The thread is legitimate. I asked that my post that screwed up the thread be deleted. I would still appreciate that along with the obvious spam. Thank you.
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